tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post3318886889061798866..comments2023-04-24T07:42:08.886-07:00Comments on Challenging Bell: A flatlanders view on Joy Christian's simulationsAlbert Janhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09238229295995187268noreply@blogger.comBlogger251125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-74513397689042023802016-04-26T11:36:47.765-07:002016-04-26T11:36:47.765-07:00I have posted a slightly revised version of my der...I have posted a slightly revised version of my derivation for the singlet correlation at the following link:<br /><br />https://www.academia.edu/24765800/Proposed_Macroscopic_Test_of_the_Physical_Relevance_of_Bells_TheoremJoy Christianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16340991859446970450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-65324713640084769392016-01-12T23:15:40.883-08:002016-01-12T23:15:40.883-08:00I now have a more detailed response to Gill's ...I now have a more detailed response to Gill's challenge to my proposed macroscopic experiment at the following link:<br /><br />http://www.sciphysicsforums.com/spfbb1/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=222&p=6206#p6206<br /><br />I am waiting for Gill to prove to the world that he is a "gentleman" as he claimed he is by paying up 10,000 Euros to me. Joy Christianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16340991859446970450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-53986964103766149192015-11-23T03:14:51.739-08:002015-11-23T03:14:51.739-08:00I have updated my "local causality" pape...I have updated my "local causality" paper, which now also includes the new, simplified derivation of the EPR-Bohm correlation (see page 8):<br /><br />http://arxiv.org/abs/1405.2355<br /><br />Note that this is the absolute end of the line for the Bell believers and quantum conformists.Joy Christianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16340991859446970450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-27656349544171922952015-11-18T01:14:00.008-08:002015-11-18T01:14:00.008-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Brian Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16092710834846868045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-27056709329122709442015-11-12T08:21:10.316-08:002015-11-12T08:21:10.316-08:00I have produced a new, simplified derivation of th...I have produced a new, simplified derivation of the EPR-Bohm correlation that is absolutely devastating for the diehard Bell believers like Richard Gill, Scott Aaronson, and many thousands of other quantum conformists:<br /> https://www.academia.edu/17783877/Disproof_of_Bells_Theorem_page_7_of_arXiv_1501.03393_<br /><br />This disproof of Bell is only one page long, so you have no excuse but to read it. :-)<br />Joy Christianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16340991859446970450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-6665395885813657832015-10-14T08:56:06.102-07:002015-10-14T08:56:06.102-07:00Deep down Gill must be aware that he is living a l...Deep down Gill must be aware that he is living a lie.Joy Christianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16340991859446970450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-48284218014830294572015-10-14T00:42:48.277-07:002015-10-14T00:42:48.277-07:00All I can say is WOW!. Just when you think it can...All I can say is WOW!. Just when you think it can't get any better it does. I don't think we care at all at what Gill has to say anymore. He had his chance to see the truth. Wants to keep the blinders on I suppose for some unknown reason.FrediFizzxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01812058127535130396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-78873439263577760412015-10-13T23:55:29.040-07:002015-10-13T23:55:29.040-07:00I have revised the paper slightly, making the main...I have revised the paper slightly, making the main derivation more symmetric:<br /><br />https://www.academia.edu/16328957/A_simplified_local-realistic_derivation_of_the_EPR-Bohm_correlation<br /><br />Now as soon as Gill tries to play his unphysical game with my equation (5), he will be forced to the result (9) of the paper (directly), with no way to escape from the conclusion E(a, b) = -a.b.Joy Christianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16340991859446970450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-22269385071439330582015-10-11T23:51:39.345-07:002015-10-11T23:51:39.345-07:00New more simple Mathematica EPRB simulation;
http...New more simple Mathematica EPRB simulation;<br /><br />http://www.sciphysicsforums.com/spfbb1/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=209FrediFizzxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01812058127535130396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-71560647706752487122015-10-10T09:16:50.244-07:002015-10-10T09:16:50.244-07:00Furthermore, this blog has achieved its objective ...Furthermore, this blog has achieved its objective with this latest revelation concerning the negative cosine curve. However, it is not that Bell was wrong about the inequalities; it is that he was wrong about the so called "theorem" deduced from the inequalities. He (and others) failed to see that they were "rigged" from the very beginning. Nothing can violate them.FrediFizzxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01812058127535130396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-40523512828411380522015-10-10T01:35:19.254-07:002015-10-10T01:35:19.254-07:00Gill has runaway because his pants are on fire!Gill has runaway because his pants are on fire!Joy Christianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16340991859446970450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-17455347094386639242015-10-10T00:21:52.041-07:002015-10-10T00:21:52.041-07:00And BTW, there is really no need for Albert Jan to...And BTW, there is really no need for Albert Jan to post anything more about Joy's model. We are done. Everything is in pretty much a perfect place now that Joy as done the simplified version.FrediFizzxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01812058127535130396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-76274681649913021972015-10-10T00:14:45.377-07:002015-10-10T00:14:45.377-07:00More lecturing drivel mixed with more nonsense. I...More lecturing drivel mixed with more nonsense. I figured you wouldn't be able to produce the negative cosine curve using +/-1 outcomes via QM. It is very simple; it can't be done. So how does one simulate it? LOL! You lost the debate. It is time to admit it before you are completely lost in the dust bin of another failed no-go theorem. Oops, excuse me; <b>theory</b>.FrediFizzxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01812058127535130396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-67206505870408510652015-10-09T23:07:38.606-07:002015-10-09T23:07:38.606-07:00Thank you Fred, for telling us what you were barki...Thank you Fred, for telling us what you were barking on about. <br /><br />Quantum theory indeed does not describe single events. However it does give us the probabilities of single events. In particular it gives us the probabilities of the outcomes ++, +-, -+, --. And from those probabilities one can compute the expectation value of the product = probability of equal minus probability of unequal outcomes, leading (in the case of the singlet state and the spin measurements in various directions) to the negative cosine, via the calculations for which you now have literature references. <br /><br />As I have mentioned before there are also short-cut routes to getting the correlation without going via the probabilities.<br /><br />Experiments (Aspect, Weihs, etc...) reproduce not only the correlation but also the probabilities. <br /><br />So much for quantum theory.<br /><br />In contrast, (1) and (2) of Christian's latest gives us that the probability of +- and of -+ are both half, and the probabilities of ++ and -- are zero. Leading to a correlation of -1. <br /><br />The last lines of the paper conjure up the negative correlation through the mathematical fact that 0.5( I a I b + I b I a ) = - 0.5( a b + b a )= - a . b (note that I^2 = -1 and that the "pseudo-scalar" I commutes with everything, in particular, with the vectors a and b.<br /><br />So Christian had a dream that that mathematical identiy had a probabilistic and physical interpretation in terms of bivectorial measurement outcomes and a randomly flipping parity in S^3. In fact his lambda takes different roles in different parts of the fantasy: sometimes it is just a sign flip, sometimes a transposition. It was a wonderful dream but it has soured and turned into a nightmare. It's very saddening that it has taken Christian so long to wake up to the cold light of day. In the mean-time he has totally destroyed his academic career and his reputation among scientists. Since very consistently, for many years, his only answer to just criticism has been to foul-mouth his opponents.<br /><br />I suspect that Albert Jan has also woken up to the deception now, so I do not expect more postings on this blog on the Christian model. Maybe sometime another anti-Bellist will come back (for instance: Bryan Sanctuary has been quiet for quite a while now). <br /><br />Then perhaps there will again be discussions worth participating in. In the mean time - so long and thanks for the fish.gill1109https://www.blogger.com/profile/02368614583412112303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-13305519189829209392015-10-09T09:42:16.842-07:002015-10-09T09:42:16.842-07:00Well... there is another option for Gill... admit...Well... there is another option for Gill... admit that he lost the debate and join the great physics revolution of the century! It is probably fitting that it should happen on this blog. More thanks go to Albert Jan.FrediFizzxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01812058127535130396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-74124084415925945592015-10-08T09:59:35.252-07:002015-10-08T09:59:35.252-07:00For lurkers, I will give a further clue from one o...For lurkers, I will give a further clue from one of De Raedt, et al's earlier papers about the subject.<br /><br />"In various basic experiments in quantum physics, observations are recorded event-by-event. The final outcome of such experiments can be computed according to the rules of quantum theory but quantum theory <b>does not describe single events.</b>"<br /><br />Bold emphasis mine. Gill lost the debate. What else can he do other than obfuscate?FrediFizzxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01812058127535130396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-42843935783809627362015-10-08T04:18:50.328-07:002015-10-08T04:18:50.328-07:00More drivel, obfuscation, and diversion tactics fr...More drivel, obfuscation, and diversion tactics from Gill.<br /><br />His bogus remarks about *his* silly model which he is trying to pass on as my model has been repeatedly debunked and disposed off.<br /><br />Gill must put up or shut up. He must explicitly produce the negative cosine curve using +/-1 outcomes he claims QM predicts. If he cannot do that, then he is a liar and a hypocrite.<br /><br /> Joy Christianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16340991859446970450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-81798602953077901042015-10-08T03:27:03.514-07:002015-10-08T03:27:03.514-07:00Now Fred seems to be hinting at simulations of the...Now Fred seems to be hinting at simulations of the negative cosine by local realistic models, using the detection loophole or the coincidence loophole. See for instance Pearle (1970) and http://arxiv.org/abs/1505.04431<br /><br />Most importantly: neither Fred nor Joy has any answer whatever to my remarks that from formula (1) of https://www.academia.edu/16328957/A_simplified_local-realistic_derivation_of_the_EPR-Bohm_correlation we can deduce that script A(a, lambda^k) = lambda^k, and from formula (2) we obtain script B(b, lambda^k) = - lambda^k. We are told that lambda^k = +/-1 is a fair coin toss. It follows from (4) that E(a, b) = -1. <br /><br />All they can do is scream personal abuse (Joy) or change the subject (Fred). That's good, because the whole world can see these reactions. gill1109https://www.blogger.com/profile/02368614583412112303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-24781514190302392512015-10-08T00:40:59.643-07:002015-10-08T00:40:59.643-07:00I will give him a couple of hints... De Raedt and...I will give him a couple of hints... De Raedt and Christian FrediFizzxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01812058127535130396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-83394318407531704382015-10-08T00:35:10.288-07:002015-10-08T00:35:10.288-07:00As I expected, more drivel from Gill. He simply ca...As I expected, more drivel from Gill. He simply cannot produce what Fred asked him to produce, so he obfuscates by citing totally irrelevant garbage instead.<br /><br />Put up or shut up: produce the negative cosine curve using +/-1 outcomes. Joy Christianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16340991859446970450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-90629434937651064662015-10-08T00:12:36.801-07:002015-10-08T00:12:36.801-07:00See also section 9.3.3 of Doran and Lasenby; in pa...See also section 9.3.3 of Doran and Lasenby; in particular, formula (9.82)gill1109https://www.blogger.com/profile/02368614583412112303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-74008658675565826492015-10-08T00:06:15.071-07:002015-10-08T00:06:15.071-07:00See for instance page 17 of http://www.math.ru.nl/...See for instance page 17 of http://www.math.ru.nl/~maassen/papers/elements.pdf<br /><br />Burkhard Kümmerer, Hans Maassen: <br />Elements of Quantum Probability <br />Quantum Probability Communications, X (1998) 73-100, <br />eds. R.L. Hudson, J.M. Lindsay, <br />World Scientific, Singapore, 1998. gill1109https://www.blogger.com/profile/02368614583412112303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-43129789885432276112015-10-07T09:53:55.125-07:002015-10-07T09:53:55.125-07:00@gill1109
Let's see it then. Produce the nega...@gill1109<br />Let's see it then. Produce the negative cosine curve using +/-1 outcomes.FrediFizzxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01812058127535130396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-28739770712234363582015-10-07T04:58:32.853-07:002015-10-07T04:58:32.853-07:00So does my 3-sphere model, as can be readily seen ...So does my 3-sphere model, as can be readily seen from eq. (42) of this paper:<br /><br />http://arxiv.org/pdf/1405.2355.pdf .<br /><br />This is further explained here:<br /><br />http://www.sciphysicsforums.com/spfbb1/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=188#p5129<br /><br />and here:<br /><br />http://www.sciphysicsforums.com/spfbb1/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=199#p5485<br /><br />Joy Christianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16340991859446970450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8429900384844030048.post-8095306922353799382015-10-07T04:28:15.943-07:002015-10-07T04:28:15.943-07:00Of course I can produce a negative cosine curve vi...Of course I can produce a negative cosine curve via QM with those +/-1 valued measurement outcomes, and moreover this is standard material in many elementary QM texts. One can use QM to compute the probability of each of the four possible joint outcomes ++, +-, -+, --. The expectation of the product of the outcomes is then prob(++) + prob(--) - prob(+-) - prob(-+).<br /><br />Of course there are also short-cuts to getting the same result. The expectation value of observable X when measured on a system in state rho (rho is the density matrix) is trace(rho X). One gets the same result by computing the probability of observing each possible eigenvalue: trace(rho times Projector onto eigenspace corresponding to eigenvalue x). This is because <br /><br />X = sum_x x Projector onto eigenspace corresponding to eigenvalue x.gill1109https://www.blogger.com/profile/02368614583412112303noreply@blogger.com